{"id":12818,"date":"2019-03-31T16:44:52","date_gmt":"2019-03-31T21:44:52","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/circassiancenter.com\/tr\/?p=12818"},"modified":"2019-03-31T16:44:52","modified_gmt":"2019-03-31T21:44:52","slug":"4-milyonluk-filistinin-devlet-kurma-hakki-var-da-40-milyonluk-kurtlerin-yok-mu","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.circassiancenter.com\/tr\/4-milyonluk-filistinin-devlet-kurma-hakki-var-da-40-milyonluk-kurtlerin-yok-mu\/","title":{"rendered":"4 M\u0130LYONLUK F\u0130L\u0130ST\u0130N\u2019\u0130N DEVLET KURMA HAKKI VAR DA 40 M\u0130LYONLUK K\u00dcRTLER\u0130N YOK MU?"},"content":{"rendered":"

<\/p>\n

Hasan Cemal <\/strong>\u00a0
\n<\/strong> H\u00fcrriyet Gazetesi, Eyl\u00fcl 2014<\/p>\n

H\u00fcrriyet gazetesinden Cansu \u00c7aml\u0131bel<\/strong>‘in sorular\u0131n\u0131 yan\u0131tlayan Hasan Cemal “\u00c7\u00f6z\u00fcm S\u00fcrecinde K\u00fcrdistan G\u00fcnl\u00fckleri<\/strong>” adl\u0131 yeni kitab\u0131 \u00fczerinden \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcrecini anlatt\u0131. \u00c7aml\u0131bel’in “K\u00fcrt hareketinde Apo’yu Atak\u00fcrtle\u015ftirme ak\u0131m\u0131 g\u00fc\u00e7l\u00fc”<\/strong> ba\u015fl\u0131\u011f\u0131yla yay\u0131mlanan r\u00f6portaj\u0131 \u015f\u00f6yle:<\/p>\n

K\u00dcRT HAREKET\u0130NDE APO’YU ATAK\u00dcRTLE\u015eT\u0130RME AKIMI G\u00dc\u00c7L\u00dc<\/strong><\/p>\n

Hasan Cemal gazetecilikte 45\u2019inci y\u0131l\u0131n\u0131 geride b\u0131rak\u0131rken K\u00fcrt meselesi \u00fczerine d\u00f6rd\u00fcnc\u00fc kitab\u0131n\u0131 yazd\u0131. 1993\u2019te \u2018K\u00fcrtler\u2019 kitab\u0131yla \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131\u011f\u0131 yolculuk asl\u0131nda, T\u00fcrk devletinin K\u00fcrt meselesine bak\u0131\u015f\u0131ndaki evrimin canl\u0131 tan\u0131kl\u0131\u011f\u0131. Tam \u201cHah sonunda\u201d dedi\u011fi a\u015famada, yani devlet \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcrecini ba\u015flatt\u0131\u011f\u0131nda gazetesindeki k\u00f6\u015fesini kaybetti. T24 yazar\u0131 olarak yoluna devam etti. 1993\u2019te \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131\u011f\u0131 o yolculu\u011fun son duraklar\u0131nda biriktirdiklerinden \u2018\u00c7\u00f6z\u00fcm S\u00fcrecinde K\u00fcrdistan G\u00fcnl\u00fckleri\u2019 \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131.<\/p>\n

Bunca y\u0131ld\u0131r T\u00fcrk siyasetini K\u00fcrt sorununun \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm\u00fcne cesaretlendirmek ad\u0131na yaz\u0131p \u00e7izen Hasan Cemal i\u00e7in \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcreci ne anlama geliyor?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u0130lgin\u00e7 olan \u015fu: \u00c7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcrecinin ba\u015flang\u0131c\u0131, yaz\u0131l\u0131 bas\u0131ndaki sonumu getirdi. Ama bundan dolay\u0131 hi\u00e7bir \u015fekilde komplekslenmedim. Erdo\u011fan\u2019\u0131n tetik\u00e7ileri hakk\u0131mda lin\u00e7 kampanyas\u0131 ba\u015flatt\u0131lar ve \u201cHasan Cemal \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcrecine kar\u015f\u0131\u201d dediler. Kendimi savunma gere\u011fi hissetmedim \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc 1990\u2019l\u0131 y\u0131llardan beri bar\u0131\u015f\u0131n pe\u015finde ko\u015fan bir gazeteciyim.<\/p>\n

\u00c7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcreci ve Abdullah \u00d6calan, \u2018Yeni T\u00fcrkiye\u2019nin neresinde duruyor?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Deniyor ki; \u201cK\u00fcrt siyasal hareketi kendi istediklerini Erdo\u011fan\u2019dan alacak. T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de demokrasiymi\u015f, hukukun \u00fcst\u00fcnl\u00fc\u011f\u00fcym\u00fc\u015f umurlar\u0131nda olmayacak.\u201d Yani demokrasi konusunda K\u00fcrtler, T\u00fcrkleri satacak. Bunu do\u011frudan Murat Karay\u0131lan\u2019a da Cemil Bay\u0131k\u2019a da sordum. \u0130mk\u00e2n\u0131m olsa Abdullah \u00d6calan\u2019a da sorard\u0131m. Yan\u0131tlar\u0131 \u015fuydu: \u201cK\u00fcrt meselesinin \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fclmesiyle T\u00fcrkiye\u2019nin demokratikle\u015fmesi etle t\u0131rnak gibidir, birbirinden ayr\u0131lmaz.\u201d Ben de b\u00f6yle d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyorum. Bunlar\u0131 birbirinden ay\u0131rmak bana da m\u00fcmk\u00fcn de\u011fil gibi geliyor. \u00c7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcreci son derece \u00f6nemli, bir bu\u00e7uk y\u0131ld\u0131r da\u011fdan \u00f6l\u00fcm haberleri gelmiyor, kan ve g\u00f6zya\u015f\u0131 akm\u0131yor. Ama ayn\u0131 zamanda bar\u0131\u015f s\u00fcrecinin alt\u0131n\u0131 hen\u00fcz doldurmu\u015f de\u011fil Tayyip Erdo\u011fan iktidar\u0131.<\/p>\n

Cumhurba\u015fkanl\u0131\u011f\u0131 se\u00e7imlerinde K\u00fcrt hareketi g\u00fc\u00e7l\u00fc bir aday \u00e7\u0131kard\u0131 ve y\u00fczde 10\u2019a yak\u0131n oy ald\u0131. Ama yayg\u0131n kanaat \u015fu: \u201c\u0130\u015f ikinci tura kalsayd\u0131 K\u00fcrtler kesin Erdo\u011fan\u2019a oy verecekti.\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n

K\u00fcrt siyasal hareketinin \u00f6nemli isimlerine sordu\u011fun vakit AKP\u2019nin alternatifi CHP-MHP koalisyonudur. \u201cB\u00f6yle bir koalisyonun \u00e7\u00f6z\u00fcm s\u00fcreci a\u00e7\u0131s\u0131ndan daha iyi olaca\u011f\u0131na kimse bizi inand\u0131ramaz. Biz silahl\u0131 m\u00fccadeleyle devleti masaya oturttuk. Kar\u015f\u0131m\u0131za kim oturursa otursun o m\u00fczakere devam eder, ba\u015fka \u00e7are yoktur. Bu siyasi iradeyi AKP ve Erdo\u011fan g\u00f6sterdi. Do\u011fru olan bunu devam ettirmektir\u201d diyorlar.<\/p>\n

“\u00d6CALAN KAR\u0130ZMASI” \u00c7\u0130Z\u0130L\u0130RSE PKK SARSILAB\u0130L\u0130R<\/p>\n

\u00d6calan\u2019\u0131n meseleyi y\u00fcr\u00fctme \u015fekliyle ya da Hakan Fidan\u2019la kurmu\u015f oldu\u011fu ili\u015fkiyle ilgili soru i\u015faretleri var m\u0131 kafan\u0131zda?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00d6calan 1999\u2019dan beri hapiste, devletin kontrol\u00fcnde. \u00d6calan\u2019\u0131n bu d\u00f6nemde \u00f6nce askerle, sonra M\u0130T arac\u0131l\u0131\u011f\u0131yla siyasi iktidarla nas\u0131l bir al-ver i\u00e7inde oldu\u011funu bilmedi\u011fim i\u00e7in bu konuda kesin bir \u015fey s\u00f6yleyemem. Kafamda soru i\u015faretleri elbette var. \u0130mk\u00e2n\u0131m olsa gidip \u00d6calan\u2019a sormak isterim. Devlet \u00e7ok uzun y\u0131llar \u00d6calan\u2019\u0131 kullanarak PKK\u2019y\u0131 b\u00f6lmek istedi. B\u00fct\u00fcn hedefi buydu. Ama \u00d6calan buna imk\u00e2n vermedi. PKK\u2019n\u0131n b\u00fct\u00fcnl\u00fc\u011f\u00fc 1999 sonras\u0131nda da devam etti.<\/p>\n

PKK\u2019n\u0131n b\u00fct\u00fcnl\u00fc\u011f\u00fcn\u00fc ne etkiler?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00d6calan, hareketin \u00f6nderi olarak karizmas\u0131na bir \u00e7izik yerse….<\/p>\n

Nas\u0131l yiyebilir o \u00e7izi\u011fi?<\/strong><\/p>\n

K\u00fcrt siyasi hareketinin beklenti \u00e7\u0131tas\u0131n\u0131 \u00e7ok a\u015fa\u011f\u0131 d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcrecek bir tav\u0131r al\u0131rsa, g\u00fcnl\u00fck deyi\u015fle kendi karizmas\u0131na bir \u00e7izik att\u0131rm\u0131\u015f olur. Bu da PKK\u2019y\u0131 ciddi olarak sarsabilir. \u00d6calan bug\u00fcne kadar karizmas\u0131na b\u00f6yle bir \u00e7izik att\u0131rmad\u0131. Bu kitapta yer alan \u00e7ekilme s\u00fcrecinde ilk 15 ki\u015filik gerilla grubuyla ve ondan sonra \u00e7ekilen 30 ki\u015fiyle bulu\u015ftum, konu\u015ftum. Hepsinin s\u00f6yledi\u011fi \u015fu: \u201cBiz s\u0131n\u0131r d\u0131\u015f\u0131na \u00e7ekildi\u011fimiz i\u00e7in mutlu de\u011filiz ama \u00f6nderimize g\u00fcvendi\u011fimiz i\u00e7in \u00e7ekiliyoruz.\u201d Neden b\u00f6yle bir burukluk hissediyorlar? Bunun yan\u0131t\u0131 2009 y\u0131l\u0131nda Kandil\u2019de Murat Karay\u0131lan\u2019\u0131n bana s\u00f6yledi\u011fi s\u00f6zde yat\u0131yor: \u201cHasan Cemal, biz da\u011fa 30 y\u0131l \u00f6nce piknik yapmak i\u00e7in \u00e7\u0131kmad\u0131k.\u201d Bu h\u00e2l\u00e2 ge\u00e7erli. Karay\u0131lan \u015f\u00f6yle devam etmi\u015fti: \u201cBaz\u0131 \u00f6nko\u015fullar\u0131m\u0131z yerine getirilmezse biz da\u011fdan insek bile bu insanlar inmez.\u201d Bence \u00d6calan da bu ger\u00e7e\u011fi biliyor, neyin yap\u0131l\u0131p yap\u0131lamayaca\u011f\u0131n\u0131 g\u00f6r\u00fcyor. \u00d6te yandan, acaba devletin kafas\u0131n\u0131n arkas\u0131nda h\u00e2l\u00e2 \u201c\u00d6calan\u2019\u0131n karizmas\u0131na bir \u00e7izik at\u0131p PKK\u2019y\u0131 b\u00f6lebilir miyiz\u201d diye bir senaryo var m\u0131, bunu bilmiyorum.<\/p>\n

Kitapta \u2018Apo\u2019dan bir Atak\u00fcrt yarat\u0131lmas\u0131\u2019n\u0131n bar\u0131\u015f ve demokrasi a\u00e7\u0131s\u0131ndan getirebilece\u011fi tehlikelere dikkat \u00e7ekiyorsunuz. \u015eu anda bu boyutu konu\u015fan pek kimse yok de\u011fil mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Apo\u2019yu Atak\u00fcrtle\u015ftirme ak\u0131m\u0131 K\u00fcrt hareketi i\u00e7inde epeyce g\u00fc\u00e7l\u00fc. Ben mesela onlara \u201cAtak\u00fcrt m\u00fc?\u201d diye sordu\u011fumda kimse g\u00fclm\u00fcyor. Sorunun ne anlama geldi\u011fini biliyor, \u201cHay\u0131r\u201d da diyemiyorlar. Ama a\u011f\u0131zlar\u0131ndan da \u015fu soru \u00e7\u0131km\u0131yor: \u201cApo\u2019yu tabula\u015ft\u0131rmak ya da Atat\u00fcrk gibi sorgulamamaktan m\u0131 bahsediyorsunuz? \u00d6yleyse bu da sak\u0131ncal\u0131…\u201d Ku\u015fkusuz \u00d6calan\u2019\u0131n da yeri geldi\u011finde ele\u015ftirilecek yanl\u0131\u015flar\u0131 vard\u0131r. PKK\u2019n\u0131n ge\u00e7mi\u015fiyle ilgili yanl\u0131\u015flar\u0131 2013 May\u0131s ay\u0131nda Murat Karay\u0131lan, Cemil Bay\u0131k ve Sabri Ok\u2019la yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131m g\u00f6r\u00fc\u015fmede g\u00fcndeme getirmi\u015ftim. Onlar da \u201cElbette PKK\u2019n\u0131n da yanl\u0131\u015flar\u0131 var ve biz bunlarla y\u00fczle\u015fmeye haz\u0131r\u0131z. Ama devletle birlikte! Hakikat komisyonu G\u00fcney Afrika \u00f6rne\u011finde oldu\u011fu gibi kurulsun, oturup konu\u015fal\u0131m\u201d diyorlar. \u015eunu s\u00f6yleyeyim: A\u00e7\u0131k Apo ele\u015ftirisi \u015fu an i\u00e7in K\u00fcrt siyasi hareketinde dokunulmaz bir konu gibi g\u00f6z\u00fck\u00fcyor.<\/p>\n

\u2018Atak\u00fcrt\u2019 ifadesini ilk Ahmet Altan kullanm\u0131\u015ft\u0131 de\u011fil mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n

O y\u00fczden de Milliyet\u2019teki k\u00f6\u015fesi kapanm\u0131\u015ft\u0131.<\/p>\n

Sizin ba\u015fka sebepten dolay\u0131 k\u00f6\u015feniz kapat\u0131lm\u0131\u015f olsa da en az\u0131ndan bu t\u00fcr ifadeleri art\u0131k rahatl\u0131kla kullanabiliyorsunuz.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Her \u015feyi bir kenara b\u0131rak, ad\u0131 K\u00fcrdistan olan bir kitap \u00e7\u0131kmazd\u0131. Erdo\u011fan\u2019la \u00d6calan\u2019\u0131n kararl\u0131l\u0131\u011f\u0131 olmasayd\u0131 bu s\u00fcre\u00e7 ba\u015flamazd\u0131. Bunu kabul etmek gerekir. Genelkurmay Ba\u015fkan\u0131\u2019n\u0131n son yapt\u0131\u011f\u0131 \u201cBizim yol haritas\u0131ndan haberimiz yok\u201d a\u00e7\u0131klamas\u0131 K\u00fcrt meselesinde askeri vesayetin sona erdi\u011fini g\u00f6steren bir \u015fey. Ama kal\u0131c\u0131 bir bar\u0131\u015f kap\u0131s\u0131n\u0131n a\u00e7\u0131lmas\u0131 i\u00e7in demokrasi ve \u00f6zg\u00fcrl\u00fckler konusunda AKP iktidar\u0131n\u0131n atmas\u0131 gereken ad\u0131mlar var.<\/p>\n

\u00d6CALAN \u00d6ZG\u00dcR KALIRSA AYNI ERDO\u011eAN G\u0130B\u0130 ELE\u015eT\u0130R\u0130R\u0130M<\/p>\n

\u00d6calan\u2019\u0131n serbest kald\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 g\u00f6rece\u011finizi d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyor musunuz?<\/strong><\/p>\n

G\u00f6rebilece\u011fimi san\u0131yorum. Devlet olarak bar\u0131\u015f\u0131 \u00d6calan\u2019la konu\u015fuyorsun. \u0130kinci odak da Kandil. O zaman bunu neden legalle\u015ftirmeyeceksin? Bu arada, \u00d6calan\u2019\u0131n da ele\u015ftirilecek yanlar\u0131 var ve ele\u015ftirilmelidir. Kimse tabula\u015ft\u0131r\u0131lmamal\u0131. Nas\u0131l Erdo\u011fan\u2019\u0131 bin taraf\u0131ndan ele\u015ftiriyorsam, \u00d6calan\u2019\u0131 da \u00f6zg\u00fcr kal\u0131rsa \u00f6yle ele\u015ftirebilirim. O y\u00fczden de \u00f6zg\u00fcr kalmas\u0131n\u0131 istiyorum. 4 milyonluk Filistin\u2019in devlet kurma hakk\u0131 var da 40 milyonluk K\u00fcrtlerin yok mu?<\/p>\n

Irak ve Suriye\u2019de ya\u015fanan geli\u015fmelere bakarak 2014 K\u00fcrtlerin \u2018K\u00fcrdistan\u2019 hayali a\u00e7\u0131s\u0131ndan kritik bir y\u0131l oldu diyebiliriz de\u011fil mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Bir defa K\u00fcrtlerin kafas\u0131n\u0131n arkas\u0131nda art\u0131k d\u00f6rt par\u00e7aya b\u00f6l\u00fcnm\u00fc\u015f olarak ya\u015famak yok, \u201cBiz neden son tahlilde birle\u015fik bir K\u00fcrt devletine sahip olmayal\u0131m?\u201d var. Bunun tersini hi\u00e7bir zaman d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnme. Ben 90\u2019l\u0131 y\u0131llar\u0131n ba\u015f\u0131nda bunu Talabani ve Barzani\u2019ye sordu\u011fumda \u201cEvet bir ideal olarak bu kafam\u0131zda var ama bunun ger\u00e7ekle\u015fmesi ayr\u0131 konu\u201d dediler. 2003 sava\u015f\u0131ndan beri de bu fiilen ger\u00e7ekle\u015fmi\u015f durumda ve Irak\u2019\u0131 yeniden eski haline d\u00f6nd\u00fcrmek m\u00fcmk\u00fcn de\u011fil. Ayn\u0131 \u015fey Suriye\u2019de de var. Avrupa da Amerika da bunu istemez.<\/p>\n

Bat\u0131, birle\u015fik bir K\u00fcrdistan ister mi?<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u0130ster. Orada landlock (denize \u00e7\u0131k\u0131\u015f\u0131 olmayan) bir K\u00fcrdistan olursa kendilerine ba\u011fl\u0131 tutarlar. \u0130srail de \u0130ran da ister \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc bu ileride g\u00fcneyde \u015eii devletinin kesinle\u015fmesine yol a\u00e7ar.<\/p>\n

Bir tek T\u00fcrkiye mi istemez o halde?<\/strong><\/p>\n

T\u00fcrkiye de isteyebilir \u00e7\u00fcnk\u00fc bu bir yerde T\u00fcrkiye\u2019nin n\u00fcfuz alan\u0131n\u0131 geni\u015fletebilir. \u00c7\u00fcnk\u00fc en \u00e7ok K\u00fcrt, T\u00fcrkiye K\u00fcrdistan\u0131\u2019nda ya\u015f\u0131yor.<\/p>\n

Nas\u0131l bir zaman perspektifini konu\u015fuyoruz?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Ayr\u0131l\u0131k\u00e7\u0131 bir K\u00fcrt hareketi \u015fu anda g\u00f6r\u00fcnm\u00fcyor. K\u00fcrt siyasi hareketi \u201cG\u00fcney\u2019le, Rojava\u2019yla birle\u015felim\u201d demiyor. \u0130dari \u00f6zerklik, m\u00fcmk\u00fcnse bir federasyon ya da federasyona a\u00e7\u0131lan yeni bir yap\u0131dan yana g\u00f6z\u00fck\u00fcyorlar. Bu ger\u00e7ekle\u015fti\u011fi vakit bir ba\u015fka ad\u0131ma s\u0131ra gelebilir, gayet do\u011fal. \u0130sko\u00e7ya\u2019da bug\u00fcn bir referandum var ama b\u00fcy\u00fck ihtimalle ayr\u0131lma \u00e7\u0131kmayacak. Ayr\u0131lman\u0131n da bir maliyeti var. Bu, K\u00fcrtler i\u00e7in de ayn\u0131. Denize a\u00e7\u0131lmayan \u2018landlock\u2019 bir K\u00fcrdistan kolay de\u011fil. Ama onlar da bir taraftan Rojava \u00fczerinden Akdeniz\u2019e a\u00e7\u0131lma hedefindeler. Bana bunu \u2018hayal de\u011fil hedef\u2019 diye anlatt\u0131lar. Yani ba\u011f\u0131ms\u0131z K\u00fcrt devleti kafalar\u0131nda vard\u0131r. Federasyon vard\u0131r. Bu hedefler hi\u00e7bir zaman K\u00fcrt siyasetini yapanlar\u0131n kafas\u0131ndan eksik olmayacak.<\/p>\n

T\u00fcrkiye bu dinamiklere ra\u011fmen nas\u0131l b\u00fct\u00fcnl\u00fc\u011f\u00fcn\u00fc koruyabilir?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Bunu ancak demokrasi \u00e7at\u0131s\u0131 alt\u0131nda muhafaza edebiliriz. Demokrasinin ipine tutunarak insanlar \u015fiddete ba\u015fvurmadan ayr\u0131l\u0131k\u00e7\u0131l\u0131\u011f\u0131 da talep edebilirler, t\u0131pk\u0131 \u0130sko\u00e7lar gibi. T\u0131pk\u0131 Basklar, Katalanlar gibi. 3-4 milyonluk Filistinliler devlet kurma hakk\u0131na sahip de 40 milyonluk K\u00fcrtler Ortado\u011fu\u2019da devlet kurma hakk\u0131na sahip olmayacaklar m\u0131?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Hasan Cemal   Hürriyet Gazetesi, Eylül 2014 Hürriyet gazetesinden Cansu Çamlıbel‘in sorularını yanıtlayan Hasan Cemal “Çözüm Sürecinde Kürdistan Günlükleri” adlı yeni kitabı üzerinden çözüm sürecini anlattı. Çamlıbel’in “Kürt hareketinde Apo’yu Atakürtleştirme akımı güçlü” başlığıyla yayımlanan röportajı şöyle: KÜRT HAREKETİNDE APO’YU ATAKÜRTLEŞTİRME AKIMI GÜÇLÜ Hasan Cemal gazetecilikte 45’inci yılını geride bırakırken Kürt meselesi üzerine dördüncü kitabını 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