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Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz<\/strong><\/p>\n (\u00d6n a\u00e7\u0131klama: Bug\u00fcnk\u00fc misafirim Abdullah Onay. Abdullah Onay,\u00a0\u00a0Birikim Dergisi\u2019nin emektarlar\u0131ndan. Abdullah Onay; insan ve hayvan haklar\u0131 ile ilgileniyor. Bu insan\u00ee \u00e7al\u0131\u015fmalara canla- ba\u015fla destek oluyor; makaleler yaz\u0131yor, anketler yap\u0131yor, r\u00f6portajlar veriyor. \u0130nternette bu tema ile ilgili bir de blo\u011fu var. Bug\u00fcnk\u00fc konumuz; D\u00fcnya ve T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de hayvan haklar\u0131. Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz)<\/p>\n +<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> \u00d6nce biyografinizden konu\u015fal\u0131m, l\u00fctfen! Nerede ve ne zaman do\u011fdunuz? Hangi okullarda, nerelerde okudunuz? Hangi mesle\u011fe sahipsiniz? Nerede ya\u015f\u0131yorsunuz? Hangi yay\u0131mlanm\u0131\u015f \u00e7al\u0131\u015fma ve kitaplar\u0131n\u0131z var?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> 1961 y\u0131l\u0131nda \u0130stanbul Fener\u2019de do\u011fdum, ilk ve ortaokulu orada okudum. \u00c7ocuklu\u011fumda semtin \u00e7ok k\u00fclt\u00fcrl\u00fc yap\u0131s\u0131 az da olsa devam ediyordu. Sonras\u0131nda Fatih, ard\u0131ndan Bah\u00e7elievler\u2019de ya\u015fad\u0131k. \u0130lk ve ortaokulu Fener-Fatih\u2019te okudum, sonra Pertevniyal Lisesi, \u0130zzet \u00dcnver Lisesi ve \u0130leti\u015fim Fak\u00fcltesi. 18 y\u0131ld\u0131r Heybeliada\u2019da ya\u015f\u0131yorum. Edit\u00f6rl\u00fck yapt\u0131m hayat\u0131m\u0131n b\u00fcy\u00fck bir b\u00f6l\u00fcm\u00fcnde. Yay\u0131nlanm\u0131\u015f yaz\u0131lar\u0131m var, ama yay\u0131nlanm\u0131\u015f bir kitab\u0131m yok.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de \u0130nsanlar, haklar\u0131ndan haberdar de\u011filler ve o haklar\u0131n\u0131 savunmak i\u00e7in de fazlaca \u00e7aba g\u00f6stermiyorlar. B\u00f6yle olunca da, T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de bir ki\u015fi, hayvan haklar\u0131na dair birka\u00e7 s\u00f6z edince, s\u00f6zleri sa\u00e7ma bulunuyor! Fakat biliyoruz ki; insan, hakk\u0131 ile ve bu haklar\u0131n\u0131 savunmakla insand\u0131r. Ayn\u0131 \u015fekilde hayvanlar\u0131n haklar\u0131n\u0131 bilmek ve onlar\u0131n bu haklar\u0131n\u0131 canla- ba\u015fla savunmakt\u0131r insanl\u0131k. Ben b\u00f6yle \u00f6yle biliyorum. Ve de b\u00f6yle de s\u00f6yleyebilirim. \u00d6nce size soraca\u011f\u0131m: Vicdanl\u0131 bir kimse, hayvan hakk\u0131, hayvanlar\u0131n haklar\u0131 deyince, bu ne anlama geliyor? Biz bu s\u00f6zlerden ne anlamal\u0131y\u0131z?!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> \u0130nsan haklar\u0131 bir s\u00fcre\u00e7 i\u00e7erisinde ger\u00e7ekle\u015fiyor ve o s\u00fcre\u00e7 devam ediyor, ama genellikle haklar i\u00e7in m\u00fccadeleden ziyade, bunun birileri taraf\u0131ndan \u201cihsan\u201d edilmesini beklemeye dayal\u0131 bir k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcm\u00fcz var; ya da bu b\u00f6yle kodlan\u0131yor. Hayvan haklar\u0131n\u0131n sa\u00e7ma bulunmas\u0131 ise ba\u015flarda hep b\u00f6yle olur. Kad\u0131n hareketi de ilk ortaya \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131\u011f\u0131nda \u201csa\u00e7ma\u201d bulunmu\u015ftu. Egemen zihniyet d\u00fcnyas\u0131, konformizmini bozacak her yenili\u011fe tepki g\u00f6sterir, sa\u00e7ma bulur, alay eder. Nitekim sen de y\u0131llar\u0131n\u0131 bir kimli\u011fin, bir k\u00fclt\u00fcr\u00fcn, bir dilin yok olup gitmemesi i\u00e7in m\u00fccadele ile ge\u00e7irdin, ilk zamanlarda buna benzer tepkilerle kar\u015f\u0131la\u015fm\u0131\u015fs\u0131nd\u0131r.<\/p>\n Haklar m\u00fccadelesi genellikle \u00e7\u0131karlar \u00fczerinden yap\u0131l\u0131yor. Hayvanlar, insan kar\u015f\u0131s\u0131nda \u00e7\u0131karlar\u0131n\u0131 koruyam\u0131yor, haliyle haklar\u0131n\u0131 insanlar\u0131n savunmas\u0131 gerekiyor. Bu m\u00fccadele de dedi\u011fin gibi \u201cinsanl\u0131k\u201d \u00e7er\u00e7evesinde tan\u0131mlanabilir, ama o \u201cinsanl\u0131k\u201d\u0131 yeniden tan\u0131mlayarak. Hayvan hakk\u0131 deyince en k\u0131sas\u0131 insan d\u0131\u015f\u0131 canl\u0131k varl\u0131klar\u0131n ya\u015fam haklar\u0131n\u0131 anlamak gerekiyor. \u0130nsan gibi yery\u00fcz\u00fcndeki t\u00fcm bu canl\u0131lar da ya\u015famlar\u0131n\u0131 \u00f6zg\u00fcrce s\u00fcrd\u00fcrebilmeli. Zul\u00fcm g\u00f6rmemeli, k\u00f6lele\u015ftirilmemeli ve \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclmemeli.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz<\/strong>: Ben k\u00fc\u00e7\u00fck bir \u00e7ocuk iken, birisi bana hayvan deyince, bunun; kedi, k\u00f6pek, tavuk, horoz veya ku\u015f oldu\u011funu zannediyordum. \u0130stanbul kent ya\u015fam\u0131nda, bu birka\u00e7 hayvandan ba\u015fkas\u0131n\u0131 bilmiyordum. Koyun ve ko\u00e7tan da haberim vard\u0131, fakat kedi, k\u00f6pek ve ku\u015f gibi de\u011fillerdi akl\u0131mda. Zaman ge\u00e7ti. Ben de anlad\u0131m ki,\u00a0\u00a0kedi, k\u00f6pek, ku\u015f, tavuk, horoz, koyun ve ko\u00e7tan ba\u015fka hayvanlar da varm\u0131\u015f kent ya\u015fam\u0131nda: At, e\u015fek, kat\u0131r. Yazl\u0131k sinema filmlerinden di\u011fer hayvanlar\u0131n varl\u0131\u011f\u0131ndan da haberdar oldum: Arslan, kaplan, kurt. Sonra da duydum ki, baz\u0131 hayvanlar evcil, baz\u0131lar\u0131 da vah\u015f\u00ee imi\u015f! Bug\u00fcn 60 ya\u015f\u0131mday\u0131m. Anl\u0131yorum ki, hi\u00e7bir hayvan ne evcil ne vah\u015f\u00ee. \u0130nsanlar, hayvanlar\u0131n do\u011fal \u00e7evre ve ya\u015fam\u0131na zarar vermi\u015fler. Bunun i\u00e7in de hem insanlar hem de hayvanlar zarar g\u00f6rd\u00fcler bu ya\u015famdan. \u0130nsanlar\u0131n g\u00f6z\u00fc a\u00e7! Neden?! Neler s\u00f6ylemek istiyorsunuz insanl\u0131\u011f\u0131n bu k\u00f6t\u00fc haline ili\u015fkin?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> S\u00f6yledi\u011fin gibi, kent hayat\u0131nda \u201cevcille\u015ftirilmi\u015f\u201d az say\u0131da hayvan g\u00f6rebiliyoruz; modern kentle\u015fme dedi\u011fimiz s\u00fcre\u00e7, hayvans\u0131zla\u015ft\u0131rma anlam\u0131na geliyor. K\u00f6lele\u015ftirilerek var oluyorlar ancak. Tarih, denildi\u011fi \u00fczere, \u201cs\u0131n\u0131f m\u00fccadeleri tarihi\u201d, \u00e7\u0131karlar \u00fczerinden verilen bir \u00e7at\u0131\u015fmaya dayan\u0131yor. Ama bir ba\u015fka a\u00e7\u0131dan bakarsak, hayvanlar\u0131n s\u00f6m\u00fcr\u00fcs\u00fcne dayanan bir \u201cuygarl\u0131k\u201d i\u00e7erisinde ya\u015f\u0131yoruz. \u0130nsan\u0131n geldi\u011fi bu noktada hayvanlar\u0131n eme\u011fi \u00e7ok fazla ve h\u00e2l\u00e2 bu yo\u011fun s\u00f6m\u00fcr\u00fcye dayan\u0131yor sistem. \u0130nsan s\u00f6m\u00fcr\u00fcs\u00fcne son vermeye y\u00f6nelik m\u00fccadeleler, k\u0131smen ba\u015far\u0131l\u0131 oldu, ama ba\u015fka bir d\u00fcnya yaratma m\u00fccadelesi hayal k\u0131r\u0131kl\u0131\u011f\u0131 ile sonu\u00e7land\u0131. Kapitalist sistemin yaratt\u0131\u011f\u0131 insan, rekabet ve a\u00e7g\u00f6zl\u00fcl\u00fck g\u00fcd\u00fcleriyle ya\u015f\u0131yor art\u0131k. Yeni bir m\u00fccadele, bu g\u00fcd\u00fcleri ortadan kald\u0131rmaya y\u00f6nelik yola \u00e7\u0131kacaksa, hayvan haklar\u0131n\u0131 savunmam\u0131z bize \u00e7ok \u015fey \u00f6\u011fretecek.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> \u015eimdi de yava\u015f- yava\u015f hayvanlar\u0131n haklar\u0131na ili\u015fkin m\u00fccadele tarihinden konu\u015fal\u0131m! Avrupa\u2019da hayvan haklar\u0131na ili\u015fkin m\u00fccadele tarihi hangi seyirde idi?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Avrupa\u2019da bu m\u00fccadele tarihi ne kadar eski? Bu m\u00fccadelelerin \u00f6nder isimleri kimler?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> Avrupa\u2019da 17. y\u00fczy\u0131la kadar geriye giden \u201cmerhamet\u201d hareketleri var. \u00d6zellikle Britanya\u2019y\u0131 saymak gerekiyor ba\u015fta. \u00d6nceleri baz\u0131 t\u00fcrlere y\u00f6nelik ba\u015fl\u0131yor, atlar vs. gibi. 19. y\u00fczy\u0131lda, dernekle\u015fmeler yayg\u0131nla\u015f\u0131yor. ABD\u2019de de epey \u00f6rnek var. Bu ilk d\u00f6nem d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnceleri ve \u00f6rg\u00fctlenmeleri, hayvanlara \u201ciyi\u201d davranmaya, eziyet etmemeye dayal\u0131. Bunun i\u00e7in hukuk m\u00fccadelesi veriliyor ve o d\u00f6nem i\u00e7in \u00e7ok k\u0131ymetli yasal d\u00fczenlemeler yap\u0131l\u0131yor.<\/p>\n Modernle\u015fme d\u00f6nemine Descartes\u2019\u0131n damgas\u0131n\u0131 vurdu\u011fu \u201chayvanlar hissedemezler\u201d d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcncesine kar\u015f\u0131 fikirler geli\u015fiyor. Jeremy Bentham\u2019\u0131n 18. y\u00fczy\u0131l sonlar\u0131nda, \u201cSormam\u0131z gereken soru, \u2018ak\u0131l y\u00fcr\u00fctebiliyorlar m\u0131 ya da \u2018konu\u015fabiliyorlar m\u0131\u2019 de\u011fil , \u2018ac\u0131 \u00e7ekiyorlar m\u0131\u2019 olmal\u0131d\u0131r\u201d kar\u015f\u0131 \u00e7\u0131k\u0131\u015f\u0131 \u00f6nemli bir d\u00f6n\u00fcm noktas\u0131. B\u00fct\u00fcnc\u00fcl bir hayvan haklar\u0131 d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcncesi i\u00e7in ise 20. y\u00fczy\u0131l\u0131 beklemek gerekiyor. Bu d\u00f6nemde, en ba\u015fta t\u00fcrc\u00fcl\u00fck kavram\u0131n\u0131 kullanan, Richard Ryder, Peter Singer, Tom Regan, Gary Francione gibi \u00e7ok say\u0131da d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcr, hayvan haklar\u0131 teorisini geli\u015ftirme \u00e7abas\u0131 g\u00f6steriyorlar.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> Osmanl\u0131 \u00dclkesi\u2019nde\/ T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de hayvan haklar\u0131na ili\u015fkin m\u00fccadele tarihi ne kadar eski? Bizim de bu alanda \u00f6nder insanlar\u0131m\u0131z var m\u0131?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay<\/strong>: Osmanl\u0131\u2019da hayvanlara merhametli davranmay\u0131 d\u00fczenleyen dine dayal\u0131 bir k\u00fclt\u00fcr var. Mesela Bat\u0131l\u0131 seyyahlar\u0131n an\u0131lar\u0131nda dikkatlerini \u00e7eken bir \u00f6zellik bu. Yine tasavvuf d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcncesinde hayvanlar\u0131, koruyan, kollayan, \u00e7ok say\u0131da mutasavv\u0131f var. Bunlar\u0131 rahmetli \u0130smet Sungurbey\u2019in Hayvan Haklar\u0131 adl\u0131 hacimli kitab\u0131nda ayr\u0131nt\u0131l\u0131 olarak bulmam\u0131z m\u00fcmk\u00fcn. Modernle\u015fme ile birlikte bunun kaybolmaya ba\u015flad\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 ama merhameti telkin eden \u00e7e\u015fitli derneklerin kuruldu\u011funu g\u00f6rmek m\u00fcmk\u00fcn. Ama bunlar\u0131n i\u00e7inde sokak hayvanlar\u0131n\u0131 \u00f6ld\u00fcren \u201cuyutan\u201dlar da var, \u201cmerhamet\u201d duygusuyla\u2026 Hayvan haklar\u0131 i\u00e7in hukuk m\u00fccadelesini s\u00fcrd\u00fcren \u0130smet Sungurbey\u2019i, anmak laz\u0131m. Bir ara medyan\u0131n \u201cpanter Emel\u201d lakab\u0131yla tan\u0131nan Emel Y\u0131ld\u0131z\u2019\u0131 da saymak gerekir. Burada sayamayaca\u011f\u0131m\u0131z kadar \u00e7ok say\u0131da insan var bu m\u00fccadele tarihinde.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> Ya\u015fl\u0131lar\u0131m\u0131z Hay\u0131rs\u0131z Ada trajedisinden bizlere bahsediyorlard\u0131. Ne idi bu trajedi? L\u00fctfen bu trajediden de bahsedin bizlere!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay<\/strong>: Modernle\u015fen \u0130stanbul\u2019da sokak k\u00f6pekleri sorun olmaya ba\u015flar. Geleneksel mahallelerin de\u011fi\u015fti\u011fi gibi, d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcnceler de de\u011fi\u015fir. Osmanl\u0131 modernle\u015fmecileri Bat\u0131l\u0131 olmak i\u00e7in sokak k\u00f6peklerinden kurtulmak gerekti\u011fini de ileri s\u00fcrerler, \u00f6rne\u011fin Abdullah Cevdet bu konuda bir risale yay\u0131nlar. Steril bir kent talebi, modernle\u015fmeci \u0130ttihat ve Terakki iktidar\u0131nda ger\u00e7ekle\u015fir. Daha \u00f6nce de birka\u00e7 kez denenen sokak k\u00f6peklerinden kurtulma giri\u015fimleri, kentte \u00e7\u0131kan yang\u0131n\u0131 buna ba\u011flayan halk tepkisi vb. geri ad\u0131mlar at\u0131lmas\u0131na yol a\u00e7ar. Ama 1910 y\u0131l\u0131nda \u015eehremaneti (belediye ba\u015fkan\u0131) Suphi Bey\u2019in organizasyonuyla 60-80 bin k\u00f6pek toplan\u0131p mavnalarla Hay\u0131rs\u0131z Ada\u2019ya at\u0131l\u0131r. A\u00e7l\u0131k ve susuzluktan \u00f6lmeleri g\u00fcnler s\u00fcrer. Bu sonras\u0131nda ya\u015fanacak etnik temizliklerin bir provas\u0131 gibidir sanki. (1)<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz<\/strong>: Gerek \u0130stanbul\u2019da ve gerekse de di\u011fer baz\u0131 kentlerde, baz\u0131 belediyeler \u00e7o\u011funlukla da k\u00f6pekler i\u00e7in bar\u0131naklara sahip. Bu bar\u0131naklar yeterli mi? Bu konuya ili\u015fkin ne d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyorsunuz? Neler s\u00f6yleyebilirsiniz?!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> Bar\u0131naklar sokak ortas\u0131nda \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fclen, zehirlenen kedi, k\u00f6peklerin hayatta kalabilecekleri bir yer, s\u0131\u011f\u0131nak olabilece\u011fi beklentisiyle hayvanseverlere kabul ettirildi. Adeta \u00f6l\u00fcm\u00fc g\u00f6sterip, s\u0131tmaya raz\u0131 olmak gibi. Ama ilk a\u00e7\u0131lan bar\u0131naktan itibaren, onbinlerce k\u00f6pe\u011fin \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcld\u00fc\u011f\u00fc toplama kamplar\u0131 olup \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131. S\u00fcrekli yok edilen k\u00f6pekler, k\u0131sa s\u00fcre i\u00e7erisinde sokaklarda yerini al\u0131yordu. Ama hi\u00e7bir zaman bunun nedenleri \u00fczerine kafa yorulmad\u0131. \u00dcretme \u00e7iftlikleri, pet shoplar bu \u201ce\u015fya\u201dlar\u0131 \u00fcretiyor, t\u00fcketici al\u0131p, kulland\u0131ktan sonra, soka\u011fa, bar\u0131naklara terk ediyordu. Bu terk edilme oran\u0131 bir ara o kadar y\u00fcksekti ki, \u015fu anda da \u00e7ok \u00e7ok azald\u0131\u011f\u0131n\u0131 zannetmiyorum. Bu d\u00f6ng\u00fc s\u00fcr\u00fcyor. \u00dcretene, terk edene hi\u00e7bir yapt\u0131r\u0131m yok. Bedelini y\u00fczy\u0131ld\u0131r k\u00f6pekler \u00f6d\u00fcyor. Pek de uzak olmayan bir tarihte belediyeler, 25 kuru\u015fa \u00e7oluk \u00e7ocu\u011fa kedi-k\u00f6pek \u00f6ld\u00fcrterek toplatt\u0131r\u0131yorlard\u0131.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> \u00d6nceden G\u00fclhane Park\u0131\u2019n\u0131n i\u00e7inde Hayvanat Park\u0131 var idi. Ben iyice bilmiyorum, ancak baz\u0131 belediyeler yine de hayvanat parklar\u0131na sahip. T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de baz\u0131 \u00f6zel hayvanat parklar\u0131 da var.\u00a0\u00a0Bu hayvanat parklar\u0131 i\u00e7in de bir \u015feyler s\u00f6yleyin! Bunlar, faydal\u0131 m\u0131 \u00e7ocuklar i\u00e7in?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> Hayvanat bah\u00e7elerinin \u00e7\u0131k\u0131\u015f\u0131 Avrupa\u2019da insan\u0131n do\u011fa \u00fczerindeki egemenli\u011finin ni\u015fanesi. Ya\u011fmalanan Afrika, Asya gibi k\u0131talar\u0131n yaban hayat\u0131 da ayn\u0131 \u015fekilde ya\u011fmalanarak sergileniyor. Bir d\u00f6nem siyah \u00e7ocuklar\u0131nda bu t\u00fcr yerlerde sergilendi\u011fini hat\u0131rlat\u0131r\u0131m. Burak \u00d6zg\u00fcner\u2019in Meclis Komisyonunda verdi\u011fi bilgiye g\u00f6re,\u00a036 ruhsatl\u0131 hayvanat bah\u00e7esinde en az 16.000 yaban hayvan\u0131 tutsak. Bat\u0131\u2019da do\u011fal ortama benzetilmeye \u00e7al\u0131\u015f\u0131lanlar da dahil olmak \u00fczere, hayvanat bah\u00e7eleri esir kamplar\u0131. Hayvanlar\u0131 do\u011fal ortamlar\u0131ndan, yaban hayattan kopar\u0131p, bir yere kapatman\u0131n hi\u00e7bir hafifletici sebebi olamaz. G\u00fclhane Park\u0131\u2019ndaki bahsetti\u011fin yer de \u00e7ocuklu\u011fumdan hat\u0131rlad\u0131\u011f\u0131m kadar\u0131yla korkun\u00e7 bir yerdi. Kafesteki zavall\u0131 bir aslan, hemen giri\u015fte darac\u0131k bir alanda duran deve\u2026<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> Sirkler ve sirk hayvanlar\u0131na ili\u015fkine neler d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyorsunuz? Bu t\u00fcr \u015fovlar insan\u00ee mi?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> De\u011fil tabii ki, b\u00fct\u00fcn o \u015fovlar\u0131n alt\u0131nda neler yatt\u0131\u011f\u0131 yak\u0131n zamanlarda ortaya \u00e7\u0131kt\u0131. \u201cE\u011fitim\u201d ad\u0131 verilen bin bir eziyetle, o \u201ce\u011flence\u201d olarak g\u00f6r\u00fclen hareketler hayvanlara yapt\u0131r\u0131l\u0131yor. Kapanma haberleri art\u0131yor, umar\u0131z k\u0131sa zamanda t\u00fcm\u00fc kapan\u0131r, bir insanl\u0131k ay\u0131b\u0131 d\u00f6nemi de sona ermi\u015f olur.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz<\/strong>: Baz\u0131 hayvanlar, \u00e7o\u011funlukla da fareler deneylerde kullan\u0131l\u0131yor. \u00d6yle biliyorum. SSCB zaman\u0131nda, Stalin\u2019in bir deney kamp\u0131 vard\u0131.\u00a0\u00a0Bu kamp, Sohum Kenti\u2019nde idi ve de maymunlar asker\u00ee ama\u00e7larla kullan\u0131l\u0131yordu. Hayvanlar\u0131n dili yok. Bu t\u00fcr vandal i\u015fleri bitirmek i\u00e7in insanl\u0131k neler yapmal\u0131?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> Deney konusu b\u00fcy\u00fck bir felaket, yap\u0131lanlar\u0131 anlatmak bile insan\u0131n y\u00fcre\u011fini da\u011fl\u0131yor. B\u00fct\u00fcn teknolojik geli\u015fmelere ra\u011fmen, h\u00e2l\u00e2 her y\u0131l milyonlarca hayvan deney ad\u0131 verilen i\u015fkencelerden ge\u00e7iyor. Bu konuda m\u00fccadele veren Ya\u011fmur \u00d6zg\u00fcr G\u00fcven\u2019in dedi\u011fi gibi, \u201c\u00f6lmelerine bile izin verilmiyor\u201d(2) Halen de ABD ve di\u011fer \u00fclkelerde ordular, hayvanlar\u0131 denek olarak kullan\u0131yorlar.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> Gazetelerden okuyoruz ve televizyondan duyuyoruz, baz\u0131 zavall\u0131 hayvanlara \u00f6yle veya b\u00f6yle zarar veriyorlar. Bu t\u00fcr psikopat ve zalimane i\u015flerin \u00f6n\u00fcne ge\u00e7mek i\u00e7in insanl\u0131k neler yapmal\u0131 hem T\u00fcrkiye\u2019de hem de d\u00fcnyan\u0131n di\u011fer \u00fclkelerinde? Bu t\u00fcr su\u00e7lar i\u00e7in yasal cezalar yeterli mi? Bu t\u00fcr su\u00e7lar, ceza ile sonlan\u0131r m\u0131?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> En \u00f6nemlisi, y\u00fczy\u0131llard\u0131r s\u00fcregelen ideoloji ile m\u00fccadele etmemiz gerekiyor. Hayvanlar \u00fczerindeki egemenli\u011fi sorgulamak gerekiyor \u00f6ncelikle. Her y\u0131l milyarlarca hayvan\u0131 mezbahalarda, deney laboratuvarlar\u0131nda, avlarda \u00f6ld\u00fcr\u00fcp, sokaklardaki hayvanlara \u015fiddet uygulanmamas\u0131n\u0131 beklemek pek ger\u00e7ek\u00e7i de\u011fil. Bununla y\u00fczle\u015fmeyi s\u00fcrd\u00fcrmemiz gerekiyor. Sonra yasalar\u0131 de\u011fi\u015ftirmek ve uygulamak gerekiyor, ama okullarda bunun m\u00fcfredata girmesi de \u015fart. Yani \u00e7ok y\u00f6nl\u00fc bir m\u00fccadele.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> \u0130nsan para ile sat\u0131l\u0131r m\u0131? Hayvan para ile sat\u0131l\u0131r m\u0131? Hayvanlar\u0131n bu ac\u0131s\u0131 ne zaman ve nas\u0131l bitecek?!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> Sat\u0131lmayacaklar\u0131, yani mal muamelesi g\u00f6rmeyecekleri, bir ki\u015fi olarak haklar\u0131na kavu\u015facaklar\u0131 zaman. Sorundaki \u201cpara\u201d vurgusu \u00f6nemli, yani hayvanlar\u0131 bir meta\/mal olarak g\u00f6rmeyi de\u011fi\u015ftirmek gerekiyor. Bu ideolojiyi, yasalarda, e\u011fitimde, sokakta, velhas\u0131l, \u015fairin dedi\u011fi gibi, \u201cAnnelerin ninnilerinden\u00a0spikerin okudu\u011fu habere kadar,\u00a0y\u00fcrekte, kitapta ve sokakta\u201d yenebilmeliyiz\u2026<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz<\/strong>: \u00d6yle g\u00f6r\u00fcl\u00fcyor ki, \u00e7o\u011funlukla b\u00fcy\u00fck kentlerde, g\u00fcn\u00fcm\u00fczde hayvan sevgisi fazla ve s\u00fcrekli de art\u0131yor bu sevgi! Ancak baz\u0131 hayvan severler, di\u011fer hayvanlar\u0131 da de\u011fil de, yaln\u0131zca kendi hayvanlar\u0131n\u0131 seviyorlar. Bu nas\u0131l bir ruh halidir?!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> Bunu da \u201csahip olma\u201d ile a\u00e7\u0131klayabiliriz belki, kendi mal\u0131na sahip \u00e7\u0131k\u0131yor. Hayvanseverlik yay\u0131l\u0131yor, ama epey problemli taraflar\u0131 var. Bunlar\u0131 belki ileride ayr\u0131nt\u0131l\u0131 konu\u015furuz.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz:<\/strong> Bu s\u00f6yle\u015fi i\u00e7in size \u00e7ok te\u015fekk\u00fcr ediyorum. Sizin s\u00f6yleyece\u011finiz ba\u015fka s\u00f6z\u00fcn\u00fcz varsa, l\u00fctfen belirtin!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> Ben te\u015fekk\u00fcr ederim, sorular\u0131n ve s\u00f6yle\u015fin i\u00e7in. Farkl\u0131 ma\u011fduriyetlerden gelenlerin, hayvanlar i\u00e7in daha kolay empati geli\u015ftirebileceklerini d\u00fc\u015f\u00fcn\u00fcyorum. \u0130nsan-hayvan ili\u015fkisi bilinen tarih boyunca de\u011fi\u015ferek geldi. B\u00fct\u00fcn bu tarihi bilgiyi s\u00fczerek, geli\u015ftirilebilecek bilin\u00e7 ile b\u00fcy\u00fck bir d\u00f6n\u00fc\u015f\u00fcm\u00fcn ya\u015fanaca\u011f\u0131 evrenin e\u015fi\u011findeyiz sanki. Bu sadece insan-hayvan ili\u015fkilerini de\u011fil, t\u00fcm toplumsal tahayy\u00fclleri de de\u011fi\u015ftirecek. G\u00f6r\u00fcr m\u00fcy\u00fcz bilemem, ama g\u00f6rebilecek olanlar i\u00e7in ne b\u00fcy\u00fck saadet olaca\u011f\u0131n\u0131 tahmin edebiliriz. Hani, hat\u0131rlars\u0131n belki, o b\u00fct\u00fcn \u0131rk ayr\u0131mc\u0131l\u0131\u011f\u0131 d\u00f6nemini g\u00f6rm\u00fc\u015f ge\u00e7irmi\u015f 106 ya\u015f\u0131ndaki siyah kad\u0131n Virginia McLaurin, Beyaz Saray\u2019da Obama ile dans etmi\u015fti ya, onun \u00e7ok \u00e7ok daha\u00a0fazlas\u0131\u2026<\/p>\n * Daha ayr\u0131nt\u0131l\u0131 bilgi i\u00e7in bkz.:<\/p>\n (1)\u00a0https:\/\/hayvanlarinaynasinda.wordpress.com\/2017\/06\/03\/istanbulun-sokak-kopekleri-icin-karanlik-bir-yuzyil\/<\/a><\/p>\n (2)\u00a0https:\/\/hayvanlarinaynasinda.wordpress.com\/2018\/01\/17\/yagmur-ozgur-guven-ile-hayvan-deneyleri-uzerine-soylesi-olmelerine-dahi-izin-verilmiyor-1\/<\/a><\/p>\n +<\/p>\n \u201cNanape\u015fi nani\u015fen\u00a0sp\u0306ik\u0306eri\u015fi ambari\u015fa\u2026\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n (Go\u0292\u0306otkvala: And\u011faneri sumari \u00e7kini ren Abdullah Onayi. Abdullah Onayi ren Birikimi coxoni jurnali\u015fi emektarepe\u015fen arteri. Abdullah Onayik iboders k\u0306o\u00e7inuri do skindinuri hak\u0306apeten. Emk\u0306ata k\u0306o\u00e7inuri dulyapes \u015furdoguriten numxvacups emuk; mak\u0306alepe \u00e7\u0306arups, ank\u0306et\u0306epe ikips, int\u0306erviupe me\u00e7aps. Aya tematen ar blogiti ku\u011fun int\u0306ernet\u0306is emus. And\u011faneri tema \u00e7kini ren skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe Turkiye do dunyas. Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi)<\/p>\n +<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi<\/strong>: \u0130pti biyografini tkvani\u015fen b\u011far\u011falat, mu iqven! So do mundes ye\u00e7kindit? Namu n\u0292\u0306opulapes, sopes igurit? Mu mesle\u011fi gi\u011funan? So skidurt? Namu gami\u00e7kvineri no\u00e7ali\u015fepe do ketabepe gi\u011funan?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi<\/strong>: Abdullah Onayi: Ma yep\u00e7kindi, dovibadi no\u011fa \u0130st\u0306anboli\u015fi raioni Feneris,1961 \u0292\u0306anas. Feneri\u015fi ge\u00e7\u0306k\u0306apuroni do o\u015fkenoni n\u0292\u0306opulapes doviguri, dovik\u0306itxi ma.\u00a0 Feneri\u015fi dido k\u0306ult\u0306uroni xaliti kob\u017eiri ma beroba \u00e7kimis. M\u0292ika rt\u0306u nati,\u00a0 dido k\u0306ult\u0306uronoba skidut\u0306u emindroneri Feneris. K\u0306ult\u0306uronobak \u00e7\u0306it\u0306a- \u00e7\u0306it\u0306a oskidus naqonupt\u0306u beroba \u00e7kimi\u015fi Feneris.\u00a0\u00a0 Uk\u0306a\u00e7xe \u00e7kin dovibargit no\u011fa Fatihi\u015fa. Uk\u0306a\u00e7xeti \u00e7kin pskidit no\u011fa Bah\u00e7elievleris. No\u011fa Fatih- Feneri\u015fi ge\u00e7\u0306k\u0306apuroni do o\u015fkenoni n\u0292\u0306opulape\u015f k\u0306ule, ma doviguri, dovik\u0306itxi Pertevniyali\u015fi Lises, \u0130zzet Unveri\u015fi Lises do \u0130leti\u015fimi\u015fi Fak\u0306ult\u0306et\u0306is. (18) vit\u0306o ovro \u0292\u0306ana\u015fen doniti Heybeliadas pskidur ma. Didopeten edit\u0306ori vort\u0306i skidala \u00e7kimi\u015f morgvalis. Gami\u00e7kvineri mak\u0306alepe komi\u011fun, mara gami\u00e7kvineri ketabi va mi\u011fun.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi<\/strong>: K\u0306o\u00e7epes hak\u0306k\u0306epe mutepe\u015fi\u015fen ambari va u\u011funan do eya hak\u0306epe mutepe\u015fi o\u00e7valu \u015feniti didopeten va i\u00e7ali\u015fepan Turkiyes. E\u015fo iqva\u015fiti, Ar k\u0306o\u00e7ik skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306e\u015fen ar- jur nena tkva\u015fi, notkvame mu\u015fi absurt\u0306uri i\u015finen. Mara \u00e7kin mi\u00e7kinan, k\u0306o\u00e7i hak\u0306k\u0306i mu\u015fiten, hak\u0306k\u0306i mu\u015fi o\u00e7valuten k\u0306o\u00e7i ren. Xolo skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe o\u00e7kinuten do entepe\u015fi aya hak\u0306epe \u015furdoguriten o\u00e7valuten k\u0306o\u00e7i k\u0306o\u00e7i iqven. Ma e\u015fo mi\u00e7kin. Edo a\u015fo matkven.\u00a0 \u0130pti gk\u0306itxaminonan ma: Vicdanoni armitxanik skindinuri hak\u0306k\u0306i, skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe tkva\u015fi, aya mu tkvala ren? Aya tkvala\u015fen mu oxo\u0292\u0306onu\u015fi voret \u00e7kin?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:<\/strong> : K\u0306o\u00e7inuri Hak\u0306epe irden \u00e7\u0306it\u0306a- \u00e7\u0306it\u0306a ora\u015fi doloxe. Edo eya p\u0306rosesik ordu\u015fa naqonups. Mara hak\u0306epe \u00e7kini \u015feni obodu\u015fi k\u0306ult\u0306uri va mi\u011funan, emu\u015feniti aya hak\u0306epe \u00e7kini majura mitxanepek mom\u00e7an yado didopeten mep\u015fvent \u00e7kin; varnati a\u015fo oxoi\u0292\u0306onen. Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epeti \u0292\u0306oxle\u015fen \u00e7a\u00e7kveri i\u017eiren. Aya dulyape ipti e\u015fo ren, e\u015fo iqven. Oxorcaluri oxonk\u0306ana ipti ye\u00e7kindu\u015fi, \u201c\u00e7a\u00e7kveri\u201d i\u017eirineret\u0306u. Hukumran- mencelis ku\u011fun k\u0306onformizmi. K\u0306arta a\u011fanobak k\u0306onformizmi\u015fi menceli ok\u0306oxups. Emu\u015feniti k\u0306arta hukumran- mencelik k\u0306arta a\u011fanoba du\u015fmani \u015finaps, udodginu reak\u0306sioni me\u00e7aps, \u00e7a\u00e7kveri \u017eirops, gei\u017e3inups. Mtini gi\u0292\u0306va, siti ar minoba, ar k\u0306ult\u0306uri, ar nena\u015fi oskedinu \u015feni \u015furi do guriten i\u00e7ali\u015fi; aya mi\u00e7kin.\u00a0 Edo siti emk\u0306ata reak\u0306sinope mek\u00e7es namtinepek.<\/p>\n Hak\u0306epe\u015fi ok\u0306vak\u0306idinu didopeten menfaat\u0306i \u015feni ixvenen. Mara skindinapes menfaat\u0306i mutepe\u015fi va a\u00e7venan k\u0306o\u00e7epe\u015fen.\u00a0 Emu\u015feniti skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe k\u0306o\u00e7epe o\u00e7valu\u015fi renan. Siti mskva\u015fa mi\u0292\u0306umer, skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epeti, \u201ck\u0306o\u00e7inuri hak\u0306epe\u015fi\u201d doloxe \u015finaxeri ren. Mara aya k\u0306o\u00e7inoba mu ren! eya k\u0306o\u00e7inoba dudi\u015fen oxo\u0292\u0306onu- oxo\u0292\u0306onapu doma\u00e7\u0306irnan. Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe itkvina\u015fi, iri\u015fen mk\u0306ulo, mteli \u015furonepe\u015fi hak\u0306epe oxo\u0292\u0306onu\u015fi voret \u00e7kin. Mu\u00e7\u0306oti k\u0306o\u00e7i, majura mteli \u015furonepeti dudmo\u015fletineri oskidu\u015fi renan aya kianas. Zulumiten oskidu\u015fi va renan. Entepeti kyoloba do o\u011furinu\u015fen mendra oskidinu\u015fi renan. Aya ren entepe\u015fi buncinaluri hak\u0306i. Entepesti k\u0306o\u00e7inuri hak\u0306i ku\u011funan, entepesti \u015furi ku\u011funan do emu\u015feni.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> Ma \u00e7\u0306i\u00e7\u0306it\u0306a bere vort\u0306i\u015fi, armitxanik skindina tku\u015fi; k\u0306at\u0306u, co\u011fori, kotume, mamuli varna k\u0306vin\u00e7i ren aya doma\u0292\u0306onet\u0306u ma. Aya ar- jur\u00a0 skindina\u015fen \u00e7kva skindina va\u00a0 mi\u00e7kit\u0306u ma no\u011fa \u0130st\u0306anboli\u015fi skidalas. M\u00e7xuri do bo\u00e7i\u015fenti ambari komi\u011fut\u0306u, mara k\u0306at\u0306u, co\u011fori do k\u0306vin\u00e7i steri va rt\u0306es nosi \u00e7kimis. Ora kogalaxtu. Mati oxoma\u0292\u0306onuki, k\u0306at\u0306u, co\u011fori, k\u0306vin\u00e7i, m\u00e7xuri, bo\u00e7i\u015fen \u00e7kva skindinapeti t\u0306erenan no\u011fa\u015fi skidalas: \u0292xeni, girini do cori. Mon\u00e7\u0306inora\u015fi sinemape\u015fi filimepe\u015fen majura skindinape\u015fi renoba\u015fenti ambari maqu: Lomi, qilo, mgeri. Ok\u0306a\u00e7xeti vogniki, namtini skindinape oxoruli do namtinepeti mt\u0306k\u0306uri renan! And\u011faneri nd\u011fas (60) sume ne\u00e7i \u0292\u0306aneri vore. Edo oxoma\u0292\u0306onuki, \u00e7kar skindina varti oxoruli varti mt\u0306k\u0306uri ren! K\u0306o\u00e7epek skindinape\u015fi buncinaluri gomorgva do skidalas zarari kome\u00e7erenan. Emu\u015feniti hemi k\u0306o\u00e7epe hemiti skindinapek zarari ko\u017eires aya skidala\u015fen. K\u0306o\u00e7epe tolu\u017e\u011fe renan! Mu\u015feni?! Muepe otkvalu ginonan k\u0306o\u00e7inoba\u015fi aya p\u0306at\u0306i xali \u015feni?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:<\/strong> Siti tkumer, \u201coxom\u00e7\u0306k\u0306ineri\u201d skindinape dido va ren no\u011fa\u015fi skidalas. Entepe m\u0292ika renan no\u011fa\u015fi skidalas. Modernuli no\u011fa ren uskindineli; e\u015fo oxoi\u0292\u0306onen aya p\u0306rosesi. Skindinapek oxom\u00e7\u0306k\u0306ineri kyolepe iqvan\u015fi no\u011fa\u015fi skidalas oskidu\u015fi hak\u0306i aqvenan entepes. Tarixi itkvina\u015fi, aya ren\u00a0 \u201csinifuri\u00a0 ok\u0306ok\u0306idunepe\u015fi tarixi\u201d. Edo aya tarixiti ye\u00e7kindun menfaat\u0306epe \u015feni xveneri k\u0306ab\u011fape\u015fi p\u0306rosesi\u015fen. Mara xolo ar \u00e7kva \u011foci\u015fen vo\u0292\u0306k\u0306edat\u015fi, skindinape\u015fi menceli, xor\u0292i, mja, toma, mont\u0306k\u0306ori do\u00a0t\u0306k\u0306ebi\u015fen gamaxtimeri amk\u0306ata medeniyet\u0306i\u015fi doloxe pskidurt \u00e7kin. K\u0306o\u00e7epek skindinape udodginu kogama\u015fves. Aya ren didi gama\u015fvala.<\/p>\n And\u011faneri nd\u011fasti, k\u0306o\u00e7epek xoloti skidunan skindinape\u015fi menceli, xor\u0292i, mja, toma, mont\u0306k\u0306ori do\u00a0t\u0306k\u0306ebiten. K\u0306o\u00e7inoba arm\u0292ika gecgineri iqu k\u0306o\u00e7i\u015fi gama\u015fvalu\u015fa medgineri ok\u0306vak\u0306idus. Mara k\u0306o\u00e7inoba gecgineri va gamaxtu ar \u00e7kva\u00a0 kiana ye\u00e7kinu\u015fi ok\u0306vak\u0306idus. K\u0306ap\u0306it\u0306alist\u0306uri sist\u0306emis dobaderi k\u0306o\u00e7epek a\u00e7kva skidunan rek\u0306abet\u0306i do tolu\u017e\u011fepe\u015fi gagnapaten and\u011faneri nd\u011fas. Emk\u0306ata guri\u015fme\u00e7\u0306voni dulyape kiana\u015fen mek\u0306arbinu \u015feni, a\u011fani ok\u0306vak\u0306idinu\u015fi gzalepe gamaxta\u015fi; a\u011fani ok\u0306vak\u0306idinuk aya guri\u015fme\u00e7\u0306voni dulyape mek\u0306arba\u015fi, amk\u0306ata xalik \u00e7kinti mogurasunonan skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe\u015fi becitoba.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> A\u0292\u0306iti \u00e7\u0306it\u0306a- \u00e7\u0306it\u0306a Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306k\u0306epe \u015feni ok\u0306ok\u0306idinupe\u015fi tarixi\u015fen b\u011far\u011falat \u00e7kin! Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306k\u0306epe \u015feni ok\u0306ok\u0306idinupe\u015fi tarixi mu\u00e7\u0306o\u015fi rt\u0306u Avrup\u0306a\u015fi dobadonapes? Muk\u0306o mcve\u015fi ren aya ok\u0306ok\u0306idinupe\u015fi tarixi Avrup\u0306as? Aya dulyape\u015fi go\u0292\u0306onc\u011foneri coxope mi renan?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onay:<\/strong> Avrup\u0306a\u015fi dobadonapes ku\u011funan \u201cme\u00e7\u0306va\u015fi\u201d oxonk\u0306anape (17.) vit\u0306o ma\u015fkvitani o\u015f\u0292\u0306anura\u015fen doni. Didopetenti Didi Brit\u0306anyas ku\u011fut\u0306u amk\u0306ata oxonk\u0306anape. Didi Brit\u0306anya ren \u0292\u0306oxle-mxtimu dobadona aya speros.\u00a0 \u0292\u0306oxle\u015fen namtini skindinape\u015fi sort\u0306epe \u015feni rt\u0306es amk\u0306ata oxonk\u0306anape Avrop\u0306as. \u0292xenepe do amk\u0306ata majura skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe \u015feni rt\u0306es emk\u0306ata oxonk\u0306anape. Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe \u015feni gedgineri derne\u011fepe ipti ye\u00e7kindu (19.) vit\u0306o ma\u00e7xorani o\u015f\u0292\u0306anuras. Emk\u0306ata dido derne\u011fepe i\u017eirinu Amerik\u0306a\u015fi ok\u0306ont\u0306aleri Oxen\u0292alesti emindros. Amk\u0306ata derne\u011fepe gedgineri rt\u0306es skindinapes k\u0306ai o\u011fodu- o\u011fodapu \u015feni. Xvala skindinape\u015fa eziyet\u0306i\u015fa medgineri rt\u0306es emk\u0306ata derne\u011fepe emindros.\u00a0 Emu\u015feniti emk\u0306ata derne\u011fepek ok\u0306vak\u0306iderenan \u0292xeni steri namtini skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe\u015fi o\u00e7valu \u015feni huk\u0306uk\u0306i\u015fi speros.\u00a0 Edo a\u015foten dido k\u0306imet\u0306oni k\u0306anonepe i\u0292\u0306opxinerenan emindro \u015feni.<\/p>\n \u201cSkindinapes ognu\u015fi gagnapa va u\u011funanya\u201d tkveret\u0306u Dek\u0306art\u0306esik k\u0306o\u00e7inoba\u015fi modernizasyoni\u015fi oras. Edo aya notkvame mu\u015fi rt\u0306u emindroneri skidala \u015feni. Dek\u0306art\u0306esi\u015fi aya notkvame\u015fa medgineri simadepe udodginu irdenan. Ceremi Bent\u0306amik e\u015fo tkveret\u0306u (18.) vit\u0306o maovrani o\u015f\u0292\u0306anura\u015fi \u00e7odinas: \u201cHo, ar k\u0306itxala komi\u011funan. \u201cSkindinapes asimedenani varna a\u011far\u011falenani?\u201d Mara aya va ren mtini k\u0306itxala.\u201dSkindinapek \u00e7\u0306vini n\u0292\u0306orupani?\u201d Aya ren mtini k\u0306itxala.\u00a0 Edo Ceremi Bent\u0306ami\u015fi aya k\u0306itxala ren beciti ok\u0306ogza \u00e7kini \u015feni. Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe\u015fi simada ye\u00e7kindu mtelo (20.) mae\u00e7ani o\u015f\u0292\u0306anuras. Go\u0292\u0306onc\u011foneri Ri\u00e7ard Rayderi, Pet\u0306er Singeri, T\u0306om Regini, Geri Fran\u00e7ione steri filosofepe do uk\u0306ore\u0292xu majurapek sort\u0306it\u0306uli t\u0306erimi oxmaruten, skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe\u015fi simadas numxvaces. Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe\u015fi t\u0306eori\u015fi gordinu \u015feni \u015fur do guriten i\u00e7ali\u015fes amtepek.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306k\u0306epe \u015feni ok\u0306ok\u0306idinupe\u015fi tarixi muk\u0306o mcve\u015fi ren Osmanli\/ Turkiyes? \u00c7kinti go\u0292\u0306onc\u011foneri k\u0306o\u00e7epe miqounani Osmanli\/ Turkiyes?<\/p>\n Abdullah\u00a0 Onayi:<\/strong> Osmanli\u015fi orasti, skindinapes me\u00e7\u0306va o\u0292\u0306iru \u015feni k\u0306ap\u0306et\u0306i k\u0306ult\u0306uri kort\u0306u. Aya gagnapa ye\u00e7kindineri rt\u0306u mtini dinuri k\u0306ult\u0306uri\u015fen.\u00a0 Geulvaluri seyyaxepekti ko\u017eirenan aya beciti gagnapa Osmanli\u015fi lamtinalas. \u00c7kin vigurapt aya gagnapa Geulvaluri mcve\u015fi seyyaxepe\u015fi \u00e7\u0306areli- gami\u00e7kvineri gono\u015finepe\u015fen. Xolo tasavvufuri simadasti kuqonun amk\u0306ata uk\u0306ore\u0292xu mutasavvifi. Am mutasavvifepekti skindinape do entepe\u015fi hak\u0306epe \u00e7umert\u0306es. \u00c7xonapili \u0130smet Sungurbeyis ar ketabi ku\u011fun gami\u00e7kvineri. Skindinape\u015fi Hak\u0306epe coxoni ketabi mu\u015fik m\u00e7\u0306ipa\u015fi\u015fa ambarepe mom\u00e7apan emindroneri gono\u015finepe\u015fen. \u0130smet Sungurbeyi\u015fi ketabi\u015fi doloxe \u015finaxeri ren amk\u0306ata k\u0306o\u00e7inuri gono\u015finepe ti\u015fen k\u0306udeli\u015fa. Modernizasyoni\u015fi ora\u015fen doni, amk\u0306ata k\u0306o\u00e7inuri gagnapa didopeten gomindines. Mara\u00a0 gedgineri namtini derne\u011fepek milletis me\u00e7\u0306va oguru \u015feni \u015fur do guriten i\u00e7ali\u015fes. A\u015fo matkven ma. Amk\u0306ata no\u00e7ali\u015fepe\u015fen ambarepeti komi\u011funan \u00e7kin.\u00a0 Mara eya derne\u011fepe\u015fen namtinepekti \u201cme\u00e7\u0306va\u015fi gagnapaten\u201d skindinape \u201concirapt\u0306es\u201d; qvilupt\u0306es emindros\u2026 \u0130smet Sungurbeyi ren didi go\u0292\u0306onc\u011fonerepe\u015fen arteri skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe\u015fi davas. Ak coxo mu\u015fi go\u015finu\u015fi voret \u00e7kin; skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe \u015feni \u015fur do guriten i\u00e7ali\u015fu.\u00a0 P\u0306ant\u0306er Emeli \u017eegnoni Emel Yildiziti go\u015finu\u015fi voret \u00e7kin. Amk\u0306ata k\u0306ap\u0306et\u0306i k\u0306o\u00e7i ar-jur va ren, dido ren aya ok\u0306vak\u0306idinu\u015fi tarixis. Ayati k\u0306aixe\u015fa mi\u00e7kit\u0306an.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> \u00c7kini x\u00e7ini- badepek Hayirsizada\u015fi t\u0306rajedi\u015fen ambarepe komom\u00e7ept\u0306es. Mu rt\u0306u aya t\u0306rajedi. Aya t\u0306rajedi\u015fenti molami\u015finit \u00e7kin, mu iqven!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:<\/strong> Modernizasyoni\u015fi oras rt\u0306u. No\u011fa \u0130st\u0306anboli\u015fi co\u011forepe p\u0306roblemi i\u015fineret\u0306u no\u011fa\u015fi skidalas. Mcve\u015furi maxale\u015fi gagnapa gomindines.\u00a0 E\u015fo iqu\u015fiti, mcve\u015furi simadati gomindines. Geulvaluri oqopimu \u015feni, Osmanli\u015fi modernist\u0306epes soka\u011fi\u015fi co\u011forepe\u015fen mo\u00e7itu doma\u00e7\u0306inan yado da\u0292\u0306ones. \u0130pti \u015fur do guriten, co\u011forepe\u015fen mo\u00e7itu\u015fi gzalepe gores. Emu\u015feniti Abdullah Cevdetik gamo\u00e7ku ar buk\u0306let\u0306i.\u00a0 St\u0306eriluri ar no\u011fas oskidu\u015fa toli ku\u011fut\u0306es Osmanli\u015fi modernist\u0306epes. Aya gagnapa ixor\u0292elinu modernist\u0306uri \u0130ttihat do Terakki\u015fi xe\u0292ala\u015fi oras. Soka\u011fi\u015fi co\u011forepe\u015fen mo\u015fletinu \u015feni \u0292\u0306oxle\u015fenti ar-jur amk\u0306ata dulya ixveneret\u0306u. Mara aya rt\u0306u didi zalimoba. No\u011fa \u0130st\u0306anboli\u015fi xalk\u0306ik aya zalimoba, didi\u00a0 o\u00e7\u0306vape\u015fi sebebi \u015finapt\u0306u. No\u011fa \u0130st\u0306anboli\u015fi xalk\u0306ik reak\u0306sioni kome\u00e7u ot\u0306orit\u0306epe\u015fi emk\u0306ata zalimuri dulyapes. Emu\u015feniti ot\u0306orit\u0306epek na\u015fkves emk\u0306ata zalimuri dulyape emindros. Mara belediye\u015fi dudmaxvance Sup\u0306i Begi\u015fi organizasyoniten (60- 80) sume ne\u00e7i vit\u0306o\u015fi- otxo ne\u00e7i vit\u0306o\u015fi co\u011fori i\u00e7\u0306opinu no\u011fa \u0130st\u0306anboli\u015fi soka\u011fepe\u015fen, (1910)\u00a0 vit\u0306on \u00e7xoro o\u015fi do vit \u0292\u0306anas. Am bedigo\u00e7\u0306veri\u00a0\u00a0 co\u011forepe mavnavepeten mendi\u00e7kvines Hayirsiz Ada\u015fa.\u00a0 M\u015fkironeri do u\u0292\u0306k\u0306are do\u011fures am bedigo\u00e7\u0306veri co\u011forepe d\u011falepe\u015f morgvalis. Lai uk\u0306a\u00e7xeneri et\u0306nik\u0306uri opa\u011fupe\u015fi p\u0306rova steri rt\u0306u aya dulya (1) .<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> Ginon no\u011fa \u0130st\u0306anbolis, ginon majura no\u011fapes, namtini belediyepes didopetenti co\u011forepe \u015feni axirepe ku\u011funan. Aya axirepe doba\u011fine reni? Muepe isimadept? Muepe gatkvenan?!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:<\/strong> K\u0306at\u0306u do co\u011forepe \u015feni, aya axirepe ipti pelaperi i\u017eirinu skindinamaqoropepe\u015f k\u0306elen. Soka\u011fepes \u011fura do \u011fur\u017euli\u015fen \u011fura\u015fen k\u0306ai rt\u0306u aya axirepes oskidu do emu\u015feni; e\u015fo oxoi\u0292\u0306onu ipti.\u00a0 E\u015fo isimadinu skindinamaqoropepe\u015f k\u0306elen. Lai \u011fura\u015fen vardo, \u00e7a\u00e7xuri\u015fen razi oqopimu; amk\u0306ata gagnapa rt\u0306u aya simada. Mtini gi\u0292\u0306vat; \u011furati, \u00e7a\u00e7xuriti ar va reni?!\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Amk\u0306ata dulya rt\u0306u skindina\u015f axiri do mutu var! \u0130ptineri skindina\u015f axiri\u015fen doni k\u0306aixe\u015fa i\u017eirinu: Aya rt\u0306u k\u0306onsantr\u2019asyoni\u015fi k\u0306amp\u0306i. Edo (10.000) vit vit\u0306o\u015fepeten co\u011fori iqvilinu aya k\u0306onsantr\u2019asyoni\u015fi k\u0306amp\u0306epes. A\u015fo narentina, mk\u0306ule ora \u015fk\u0306ule, xoloti vit\u0306o\u015fepeten co\u011fori udodginu i\u017eirinet\u0306u soka\u011fapes. Mara mitik aya dulya\u015fi mtini sebebi \u015feni va isimadu. Omraloba\u015fi fabrik\u0306ape do p\u0306et\u0306\u015fop\u0306epek omralapan aya \u201ce\u015fyape\u201d. Mu\u015fterik aya \u201ce\u015fya\u201d ye\u00e7\u0306opups, ixmars; ok\u0306a\u00e7xeti oxori\u015fen get\u0306k\u0306o\u00e7ups. Varna soka\u011fis varna skindina\u015f axiris skidasen get\u0306k\u0306o\u00e7ineri bedigo\u00e7\u0306veri skindina. Oxori\u015fen\u00a0 get\u0306k\u0306o\u00e7upe dido rt\u0306u arorapes. A\u0292\u0306iti dido va i\u00e7\u0306it\u0306anu; e\u015fo doma\u0292\u0306onen ma. Aya dulya xoloti a\u015fo ren. Maartanik skindina omralaps, majurak skindina oxori\u015fen get\u0306k\u0306o\u00e7ups, mara \u00e7kar mitik varti maartanis, varti majuranis ceza me\u00e7aps; miti \u015feni k\u0306anonuri ceza va ren. O\u015f\u0292\u0306anurepe\u015fen doni, co\u011forepek \u00e7\u0306vini n\u0292\u0306orupan; \u011furunan. Dido \u0292\u0306ana \u0292\u0306oxle va ren, belediyepek bere- baris 25 k\u0306uru\u015fi\u015fen k\u0306at\u0306u- co\u011fori doqvilapes.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi<\/strong>: \u0292\u0306oxle\u015fen no\u011fa \u0130st\u0306anboli\u015fi belediyes ku\u011fut\u0306u zup\u0306ark\u0306is Gyulxane\u015f P\u0306ark\u0306i\u015fi doloxe. Ma k\u0306aixe\u015fa va mi\u00e7kin, mara namtini bediyepes xoloti zup\u0306ark\u0306epe ku\u011funan. Namtini doxmeli zup\u0306ark\u0306epe korenan Turkiyes. Aya zup\u0306ark\u0306epe\u015fi jin ar- jur nenati mi\u0292\u0306vit! Aya zup\u0306ark\u0306epe pelaperi reni berepe \u015feni?<\/p>\n Abdulah Onayi:<\/strong> K\u0306o\u00e7ik lamtinalas geocginu; lamtinala p\u0306at\u0306i\u015fi geicginu k\u0306o\u00e7i\u015f k\u0306elen. Edo e\u015foten ye\u00e7kindu \u017eup\u0306ark\u0306epe Avrup\u0306as. Zuup\u0306ark\u0306i ren aya cgina\u015fi ni\u015fani. Skindinape nir\u00e7ines zup\u0306ark\u0306epes. Afrik\u0306a do Asyas xe geidvinu; a\u015fotenti mt\u0306k\u0306uri skidalasti xe geidvinu, xoloti xe geidvinen. Arorapes, u\u00e7a berepeti nir\u00e7inet\u0306es zup\u0306ark\u0306i steri k\u0306afesepe\u015fi doloxe; e\u015fo kom\u015funs ma. Burak\u0306 Ozgunerik \u00e7kin ambari komom\u00e7es Meclisi\u015fi K\u0306omisyoni\u015fen. Mu\u015fi aya ambariten; (36) e\u00e7i do vit\u0306o an\u015fi sert\u0306ifik\u0306oni zup\u0306ark\u0306i koren a\u0292\u0306ineri Turkiyes. Minimumuro (16.000) vit\u0306o an\u015fi vit\u0306o\u015fi mt\u0306k\u0306uri skindina ren moloxuneri aya zup\u0306ark\u0306ep\u0306es. Geulva\u015fi dobadonapesti, buncinaluri mu\u015fi\u015fi mengaperi mteli zup\u0306ark\u0306epe molaxunale renan do mutu var. Skindinape buncina\u015fen get\u0306k\u0306o\u00e7u do moloxunus \u00e7kar sebebi va u\u011fun. Edo amk\u0306ata k\u0306abaet\u0306i mututen\u00a0 va ixarsuvinen. Gyulxana\u015fi P\u0306ark\u0306i\u015fen mola\u015finap si, mati beroba \u00e7kimi\u015fen goma\u015finen;\u00a0 dido o\u015fkurinoni soti rt\u0306u. K\u0306afesis molaxuneri bedigo\u00e7\u0306veri cilo; emedeni amaxtimoni\u015fi dido m\u0292\u0306ule sotis molaxuneri aklemi\u2026<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamaz<\/strong>: 3irk\u0306epe \u015feni, \u0292irk\u0306epe\u015fi skindinape \u015feni muepe isimadept? Amk\u0306ata \u015fovepe k\u0306o\u00e7inuri renani?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:<\/strong> Moro, aya k\u0306o\u00e7inuri gagnapa va ren. Amk\u0306ata \u015fovepe\u015fi sebebi k\u0306aixe\u015fa oxoi\u0292\u0306onu t\u0306okseris.\u00a0\u00a0 Aya \u00e7\u0306anda va rt\u0306u. Mancepek skindinapes on\u0292\u0306orinapan \u201cgamantanaten\u201d. Aya \u015fovi va ren, zulumi ren. Skindinapes rolepe mutepe\u015fi bigaten ogurapan k\u0306o\u00e7epek. Edo bedigo\u00e7\u0306veri skindinakti biga\u015fi \u015fkurinatenti roli mu\u015fi osa\u011fups eya \u015fovis. K\u0306arta nd\u011fas 3irk\u0306epe\u015fi muk\u0306onoba im\u0292ikanen yado ambarepe vognapt \u00e7kin; bolaki, mep\u015fvenat, arteriti va doskidas aya kianas!\u00a0 3irk\u0306i ren k\u0306o\u00e7inoba\u015fi onc\u011fore; aya onc\u011fore a\u00e7kva i\u00e7odas!<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> Namtini skindinape, didopetenti mtugepe ixmarinen eksp\u0306eriment\u0306epesti. E\u015fo mi\u00e7kin ma. SSRR-\u015fi oras, St\u0306alinis ku\u011fut\u0306u ar eksp\u0306eriment\u0306uli k\u0306amp\u0306i. Aya k\u0306amp\u0306i rt\u0306u no\u011fa Soxumis do maymunepe ixmarinet\u0306es askeruli no\u011firepeten. Skindinapes nena va u\u011funan! Edo amk\u0306ata vandalist\u0306uri dulyape o\u00e7odinu \u015feni, k\u0306o\u00e7inoba muepe oxvenu\u015fi ren?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:<\/strong> \u0292adape\u015fi tema ren didi k\u0306at\u0306asrofi. Xveneri amk\u0306ata dulyape\u015fen mola\u015finukti k\u0306o\u00e7is omgarinups. K\u0306o\u00e7inobas \u0292\u0306oxlextimu t\u0306eknolojiuri ku\u011fun, mara k\u0306arta \u0292\u0306anas xoloti milionepeten skindinak i\u015fk\u0306ence n\u0292\u0306irupan. Skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe\u015fi aktivist\u0306epe\u015fen Ya\u011fmur Ozgurik e\u015fo tkumers: \u201cSkindinapes o\u011furu \u015feniti gza va ni\u00e7inen zalimepe\u015f k\u0306elen.\u201d (2) A\u0292\u0306iti, Amerik\u0306a do majura dobadonape\u015fi ordupek skindinape ixmarnan\u00a0 askeruli dulyapes.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> Gazetape\u015fen vik\u0306itxupt do t\u0306elevizyonepe\u015fen vognapt, namtini k\u0306o\u00e7epek zavali skindinapes e\u015fo varna a\u015fo zarari me\u00e7apan. Amk\u0306ata psikop\u0306aturi do vandaluri dulyape o\u011findu \u015feni, k\u0306o\u00e7inoba muepe oxvenu\u015fi renan, ginon Turkiyes, ginon dunya\u015fi majura dobadonapes? Amk\u0306ata k\u0306abaetepe \u015feni k\u0306anonuri cezape doba\u011fine reni? Amk\u0306ata k\u0306abaetepe cezaten i\u00e7odeni?<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi<\/strong>: \u0130ri\u015fen \u0292\u0306oxle, o\u015f\u0292\u0306anurepe\u015fen doni naqoneri resmuri ideoloji k\u0306ala ok\u0306vak\u0306idinu doma\u00e7\u0306irnan. K\u0306o\u00e7i ren skindina\u015fi mance; e\u015fo i\u00e7kinen. Aya mancoba buncinaluri va ren; \u011eormoti\u015fen va ren. \u0130pti aya mancoba\u015fi simada k\u0306ala k\u0306ab\u011fa doma\u00e7\u0306irnan.\u00a0 K\u0306art\u0306a \u0292\u0306anas milyarepeten skindina iqvilen k\u0306o\u00e7epe\u015f k\u0306elen mezbaxanapes, \u0292ada\u015fi laborat\u0306uvarepes, avapes. Xolo am skindinapak \u015fkence n\u0292\u0306irupan soka\u011fapes. Aya zalimuri xali di\u00e7odas yado me\u015fvenu va ren realist\u0306uri simada. Aya zalimuri dulyape k\u0306ala ok\u0306onagu doma\u00e7\u0306irnan \u0292\u0306oxle. Ok\u0306a\u00e7xeti k\u0306anonepe oa\u011fanu do entepes quci me\u00e7amu doma\u00e7\u0306irnan. Mara n\u0292\u0306opulape\u015fi mufredatikti skindinape\u015fi hak\u0306epe berepes ogurasunon. E\u015fo ptkvat na, a\u015fo ptkvat na; aya dulyas xvala ar\u00a0 cepxe va u\u011fun.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> K\u0306o\u00e7i paraten gami\u00e7ineni? Skindina paraten gami\u00e7ineni? Mundes i\u00e7odasen skindinape\u015fi aya \u00e7\u0306vini?!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:\u00a0 <\/strong>Skindina a\u00e7kva va gami\u00e7inasen,\u00a0 mali va i\u015finasen skindina; skindinati k\u0306o\u00e7i steri i\u015finasen, skindinasti aqvasunon hak\u0306epe k\u0306o\u00e7i steri, emoras i\u00e7odasunon aya zulumi. \u201cPara\u201d tkumer si, aya nenas geba\u017egu skani beciti ren. Skindina mali va ren; aya a\u015fo o\u017eiramu doma\u00e7\u0306irnan.\u00a0 Aya simada on\u0292\u0306uranu\u015fi voret \u00e7kin.\u00a0 \u00c7kin aya ideolojis ocginu\u015fi voret\u00a0 k\u0306anonepes, gamantanas, soka\u011fis; mk\u0306ule nenaten \u015fairikti e\u015fo tkumers: \u201cNanape\u015fi nani\u015fen\u00a0sp\u0306ik\u0306eri\u015fi ambari\u015fa; ti\u015fen k\u0306udeli\u015fa;\u00a0 guris, ketabis do soka\u011fis\u201d ocginu\u015fi voret \u00e7kin aya zalimobas\u2026<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> E\u015fo i\u017eiren, didopeten didi no\u011fapes, and\u011faneri d\u011falepes skindinamaqorope\u015fi muk\u0306onoba dido ren, xoloti aya muk\u0306onoba udodginu irden. Mara namtini skindinamaqoropepek majura skindinapes vardo, xvala ti-mutepe\u015fi skindinapes qoropan. Aya muperi psikolojiuri xali ren?!<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:<\/strong> Gonep aya xaliti \u201cmancoba\u015fi gaganapaten\u201d oxo\u0292\u0306onapu doma\u00e7\u0306irnan. K\u0306arta k\u0306o\u00e7ik\u00a0 mali mu\u015fis mancoba ikips. Skindinamaqoropoba irden, mara didoti p\u0306roblemoni ren aya skindinamaqoropoba. Mis a\u00e7kinen; \u00e7kin aya dulya m\u00e7\u0306ipa\u015fa\u015fi ma\u011far\u011falenan ar\u00e7kvaneris.<\/p>\n Ali \u0130hsan Aksamazi:<\/strong> Ma \u015fukuri gi\u0292\u0306umert aya int\u0306erviu \u015feni. Tkvan otkvalu\u015fi \u00e7kva mutu gi\u011funan na, eti molami\u015finit, mu iqven!.<\/p>\n Abdullah Onayi:<\/strong> K\u0306itxalape skani do int\u0306erviu skani \u015feni ma \u015fukuri gi\u0292\u0306umer. \u00c7kvado\u00e7kva\u00a0 ma\u011fduriyetepe\u015fen moxtimeri, n\u0292\u0306ireli\u00a0 k\u0306o\u00e7epes mani\u015fa skindinape\u015fi aya xali\u015fa emp\u0306at\u0306i gaqvan. Ma a\u015fo mevisimadep. \u00c7kineri tarixi\u015fen and\u011fa\u015fakis, k\u0306o\u00e7i do skindina\u015fi irtibat\u0306i iktiru do and\u011fa\u015fa komomixtes. Aya tarixi\u015fi m\u00e7\u0306ipa\u015fa\u015fi opa\u011futen, ar a\u011fani gagnapa ye\u00e7kindasunon. Edo aya a\u011fani gagnapaten, ar didi goktiru\u015fi \u0292\u0306oxleni nd\u011fas voret lai, ma e\u015fo momixteps. Xvala k\u0306o\u00e7i do skindina\u015fi munasebetepe vardo, mteli lamtinaluri tahayyullepeti oktirasunon aya goktiruk. \u00c7kin ma\u017eirenani, ma a\u0292\u0306i\u015fen va ma\u00e7kinen, mara mitxanepek \u017eirasunonan aya goktiru. Edo aya iqvasen didi saadet\u0306i; \u00e7kin aya memasidemenan a\u0292\u0306i\u015fen, \u0292\u0306oxle\u015fen ma\u00e7kinenan do matkvenan. Gonepti siti goga\u015finen, gonepti ambari gi\u011fun, razist\u0306uri d\u011falepe\u015fen genomskide (106) o\u015fi do an\u015fi\u00a0 \u0292\u0306aneri u\u00e7a oxorca Virjinia Mak\u0306 Lorini doxoreneret\u0306u Obama k\u0306ala X\u00e7e Sarayis. Eya d\u011fa\u015fen dido dido mskva d\u011falepe ko\u017eirasunon k\u0306o\u00e7inobak\u2026<\/p>\n Ambari \u015feni o\u0292\u0306k\u0306edit:<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"http:\/\/circassiancenter.com\/tr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/1.png\")
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